Jordan Peterson – IQ and The Job Market

Jordan Peterson – IQ and The Job Market

So, here you go. This is from the Wunderlich people They’re a commercial company that makes general cognitive ability tests. And it’s often used by corporations (whispering) Even though it’s actually illegal. It’s actually illegal to use IQ tests. But the Wunderlich doesn’t… promote themselves as testing IQ I think they – I think it’s general cognitive ability which is the same thing but whatever. The SATs, the GREs, the LSATs, all of those, they are IQ tests so.. Now they’re more crystalized than fluid; we’ll get to that in a minute Crystalized knowledge is what you accrue across time So you could say that fluid intelligence is what programs your brain, It fills it with facts, let’s say, it fills it with knowledge But you can get an estimate of your intelligence then By sampling your domain of factual knowledge and the reason for that is, well obviously, The better the programmer, the better the content And so what that also means is that you can If your prefrontal cortex was damaged later in life your fluid IQ could plummet but your crystallized IQ remains more or less intact So even though they’re not different, One produces the other, and then once the producer… has produced, then the producer could disappear and you’ve still got the encoded knowledge so, then at least that’s how it looks to me Okay so how smart do you have to be to be different things in life? Well… If you have an IQ of 116 to 130, which is 85th percentile and above, so It’s one person in 8 up to one person in… (to himself) 130 I believe is 85, 90? 95? Is it 95? I think it’s 95. One person in 8 to one person in 20. Then you can be a attorney, a research an analyst, an editor, an advertising manager, a chemist, an engineer, an executive manager, et. cetera that’s the… now That’s not the high-end for IQ, by the way You know, it can go up Well it can go up indefinitely, Although there’s fewer and fewer people as it goes up. So, if you want to be the best at what you’re doing, bar none, Then having an IQ of above 145 is a necessity And maybe you’re pushing 160 in some situations and maybe that’s making you one person in 10,000 or even in 100,000 And then also, To really be good at it you probably have to be reasonably stress tolerant and also somewhat conscientious So people, and you think well Why is it that smart people are at the top of dominance hierarchies? And the answer to that, in part, is because they get there first. Right? And everything’s a race, roughly speaking And the faster you are, the more likely you are to be at the forefront of the pack Intelligence in large part is speed That’s not all it is, So if you’re moving towards something difficult rapidly, the faster people are going to get there first So IQ of 115, 110 to 115 So that’s 73rd to 85th percentile Copywriter, Accountant, Manager, Sales Manager, Sales, Analyst, General Manager, Purchasing Agent, Registered Nurse, Sales Account Executive If you look at universities, the smartest people are -they’re above this- Who are the smartest people at university? What do you think? Mathemeticians. Physicists and Mathemeticians, right. I could tell you who’s on the other end but I won’t! (laughter) Yea I’d like to though! (laughter continues) Anyways, okay. Going down the – now… 103 to 108 is slightly above average, right? 60th to 70th percentile Store Manager, Bookkeeper, Credit Clerk, Lab Tester, General Sales, Telephone Sales, Accounting Clerk, Computer Operator, Customer Service Rep, Technician, Clerk, Typist So you see at this level People have some technical skill and some ability to deal with complex things Okay, that’s dead average 100 is average Dispatcher in a General Office, Police Patrol Officer, Receptionist, Cashier, General Clerical Inside Sales Clerk, Meter Reader, Printer, Teller, Data Entry, Electrical Helper. (silence) 95th to 98 Machinist, Food Department Manager, Quality Control Checker, Security Guard, Unskilled Labour, Maintenance, Arc Welder, Die Setter, Mechanic. Good IQ range for relatively qualified tradespeople 87 to 93 Messenger, Factory Production Worker, Assembler, Food Service Worker, Nurse’s Aide, Warehouseman, Custodian/Janitor Material Handler, Packer. Now what you’re seeing – what you’re starting to see is that as you move down the hierarchy The jobs get simpler They are more likely to be assigned by other people, or they’re repetitive because what IQ predicts to some degree is how rapidly you could learn something but once you’ve learned it, it doesn’t predict how – necessarily how well you do at it. and so the more repetitive jobs tend – people with lower IQs are more suited to more repetitive jobs under 87, Is there something? Well! No! Right. That’s a big problem. And it’s something our society has not addressed at all! Jobs for people with IQs of less than 85 are very, very rare. So what the hell are those people supposed to do? It’s like, it’s one – it’s fifteen percent of the population! What are they supposed to do? Well, we better figure it out. Because one of the things that’s happening too is that as the as the high-IQ tech Geeks get a hold of the world The demand for cognitive power is increasing, not decreasing, right? You want to be a teller? Well you know, those checkout machines they’re not so simple! You want to work at McDonald’s? You think that’s a simple job? You don’t see robots working at McDonald’s! And the reason for that is that what McDonald’s workers do is too complex for robots to do! So Well, so this is a discussion that no one wants to have. But that’s okay. It’s still a problem. And it has to be dealt with. So the US Government – I think I told you this at one point already – It’s illegal to induct anyone into the US army if they have an IQ of less than 83, right? It’s about 10% of the population Because the US Army, they’ve been doing IQ testing since IQ testing began Because they want everybody they could possibly get into the army Because at peace time they use it as a way of moving people up the socioeconomic ladder… And in war time, well obviously You need as many soldiers as you can get your hands on And so you’re not going to be any pickier than you have to be. So when the US Army says it’s illegal to induct anybody into the armed forces if they have an IQ of less than 83, then you know that they’ve done it for absolute necessity. Right? And when people have made a finding that contradicts what they want to hear, and they’re doing it out of absolute necessity, you can be reasonably true that it’s one of those facts that just won’t bloody-well go away And so you might think that well if there’s nothing for someone with an IQ of less than 83 to do in the army, what makes you think that there’s something they can do in the general population? And then the issue is – because you know the conservatives, they’ll say “well, they should just work harder” it’s like, sorry that ain’t going to fly! And the liberals will say “well, there’s no difference between people anyhow!… …And you can just train people to do everything” and that’s wrong! So they’re both wrong! And they’re seriously wrong! And the fact that neither side of the political perspective will take a good cold hard look at this problem Means that we’re going to increasingly have a structural problem in our societies because we’re complexifying everything so rapidly that you can’t find employment! Unless – increasingly unless you’re intelligent You guys are really going to face this you know, Lawyers are disappearing like mad and the reason for that is – you can look it up online – increasingly you can do things yourself if you’re smart and so the working class people have been wiped out pretty nicely you know, in the last 30 years by automation and various other things It’s the low end of the white collar class that’s coming up next so I’m not saying that lawyers are in the low end, but low-end lawyers are in the low-end of the white-collar class So there are still going to be plenty of positions for people who are creative and fast on their feet and super smart In fact those people are going to have all the money and that’s already happening to a great degree you know, because if you’re smart and you can use a computer, you’re so smart it’s just absolutely unbelievable and if you can’t use a computer, and lots of people, and I don’t mean you know, you can open word, that isn’t what I mean I mean – maybe I mean you can program and if you can’t program, well, you’re right at the next end so if you haven’t got that with you, you’re… you’re going to be left behind (student) what’s going to happen to them, when that happens? When you have, you know – (Peterson) oh well a lot of them will take Demerol That’s what’s happening in the United States Yea, it’s an opiate. Yea, so there’s a massive drug problem emerging and – (student) *inaudible* … under 83, or whatever it is, is about 15% of the population (Peterson) yea, yea, no I’m telling you, that is what’s happening, they’re – (student) what you’re talking about seems like that percent of the population is going to increase (Peterson) Yes. Drugs! Yea, drugs of abuse. (student) *inaudible* …15% of the population falling out of society well that’s what is happening to a large degree is people drop out of the employment race they get very depressed, they develop chronic pain problems especially if they’re men, because chronic pain and depression are very much the same thing, and then they subsist on opiates, which are subsidised by Medicaid in the US. I’m not kidding about this, this is exactly what’s happening! What else is going to happen to people for whom there is nothing to do? They have a terrible time, especially if they’re conscientious. (student) how large will that stratum of people grow? (Peterson) That’s a good question! You know, the AI guys are pushing hard on this Hey! What’s the biggest employment category? Driver Think about it. What’s Tesla doing? What are all the AI guys working on as fast as they possibly can? Driverless Cars! No problem Except that’s the biggest employment category for men. So what are those guys going to do? Yea, they’re going to sit at home and, you know, be miserable with their wives and take opiates because they have chronic pain problems right Nasty and you might think well – could they think up something else to do? Well if you have an IQ of 83 or less you’re not going to be doing a lot of thinking about something else to do you know, that isn’t how it works because you’re more of a – you’re an ‘act’ person, not a ‘thinking’ person. roughly speaking you know, and so if you have a task at hand, and especially if you’re conscientious, you can diligently go about it but you know, I’ve tried to train people with IQs of 80 and less to do… what I would consider tasks that that one of you could learn to do in 10 minutes and never make a mistake again and it’s like tens of hours with bare-minimum mastery of the task Yea it’s an ugly situation, no doubt about it.

100 thoughts to “Jordan Peterson – IQ and The Job Market”

  1. But, can someone working as a janitor or food service worker have a higher IQ if they know they are only temporary working that job due to lack of better employment or their starting their career in the workforce?

  2. In my part of the world there's a lot going on for the below 80s:
    1. Religious fanaticism.
    2. Political growth/leadership.
    In fact they set all the trends and norms across society, and make everyone else actually look (and sometimes feel) stupid.

  3. COMPLEXITY is the key to why IQ is next to Everything that counts.
    Under IQ 130 I wouldn't let anybody touch a compiler.

  4. Its not the smart people who are at top of dominance hierarchies. Its either the most aggressive or the most "marketing"-type ones.

  5. smart people at the top of dominance hierarchy lolololol this is not true in 1. mate selection . 2. political power – i'll give him the job market. also, i'd say mechanical engineers are the smartest people on campus (if by major). i'm a software developer but a total idiot – so many all i've said is bullshit. furthermore this doesn't at all seem to take into account many of these jobs are held within the context of a racial and gender discriminatory society where many brilliant people (emmy noether) aren't able to hold jobs due to social discrimation, say nothing of kids growing up in the hood where the smart ones become artist.

  6. 85 well that explains why people just live off the gov't which gets their revenue from the ones that are 100 and above. O snap was that racist? Never mind.

  7. Ugh, I had a few colleagues who most definitely had less than 80 IQ. It's unbelievable:
    I showed her how to copy paste an e-mail from Outlook into the ticket logging tool, then asked her if she understood now how she should do it. She said "Yes". 1 second later I told her: "Ok, now you do it". Then she turns towards me and says: "I don't know how to do it."
    At that point I just gave up.

  8. In the future, psychologists will be replaced by empty toilet paper rolls, because the empty toilet paper rolls are more valuable, more scientific and better in bed. ^^

  9. Peterson says it's illegal to induct anybody with an IQ of below 83? Well? Look up the phrase "McNamara's morons?" Project 100,000. They did it. Forrest Gump.

  10. If you get "AI'd" out of a job? Become a prepper. You'll never wont for something to do. Come up with your own systems.

  11. While this is interesting and certainly part of the picture, this analysis can be used to produce some incorrect results. Peterson in effect gives a sort of biological justification for people doing menial jobs. The problem is that IQ is a poor predictor around the median, and I would argue a poor predictor in general. Many people who can't make sense of those pattern tests or 3d rotations etc common in IQ tests have high emotional intelligence and would make great counsellors, but this sort of sociological rationalism might relegate them to pick/packing. My point is IQ is only a small, unrelaiable part of the picture about a person's potential.

  12. I have a lot of time for Jordan but where's the evidence that chronic pain & resulting opioid usage is the result of men lacking meaningful occupation? That's quite a claim – but I don't see anything in the literature to back it up. Chronic pain & Fibromyalgia if anything is gender weighted towards females. On a personal note – as someone who developed chronic pain issues while working 7 days a week and evenings, I really don't like to be typecast as someone whose illness was brought on by malingering essentially!

  13. When I was 18 I went to university and used to draw pictures in my books and the lecturers would literally make me fall asleep.

    Now I’m 33 and stay up all night watching Jordan Peterson videos on YouTube and I can’t get to sleep.

  14. If you have an I.Q. of 83 or less, you are the bulk of people you see when riots occur, because they can be led by the nose and will believe all of the garbage you throw at them.

  15. Chaos dragons are why women won't fuck you, and also the world is in on a Marxist conspiracy to paint my reactionaryism as not science! Women are hypocrites to complain about sexual harassment if they wear makeup, please give me money.

  16. I actually use the manned cashiers at grocery stores to help support those kinds of jobs, even if there are self-service options available. And it's not even a question of IQ. Young people need good first jobs to get some experience and confidence too. I started by planting trees and working on the floor in industry. Later ended up in sales and now I'm a systems developer which is both challenging and fun. I've worked both with people who pick things up much faster than me but are less organized, and with people who can't really be productive programmers at all. But EQ seems to become more and more important too, so if you are a great people person or just understand what's going on in social settings, you shouldn't be too worried about being bad at math 🙂

  17. i have an answer they want to get more stupid people and then get rid of them by feeding them with drugs and poison, simple…

  18. My IQ is good, but I still find this depressing.

    I disagree about smart people having all the money. "Most" wealthy people are sociopaths. The discarding of one's humanity allows for wealth generation, because you care about your needs over others. That is what a corporation is – a sociopath entity – and it trains it's management and executive employees to discard their concern for other people and take on sociopath traits.

    On a different note, where I live, unskilled labour and tradesmen had better wages than most professionals for the past 20 years.

  19. Dang it I’m a driver but I haul heavy I don’t think people want 100,000 pounds riding next them on the highway controlled by a robot, I have A couple more years…. hopefully

  20. To anyone getting too obsessed with IQ, let this this fact sink in: Richard Feynman, a noble prize-winning theoretical physicist who pioneered quantum computing, invented the concept of nanotechnology, worked on the development of the atomic bomb, and was lauded as a "true genius" by even his peers, had an IQ of "only" 125, tested and verified by his high school.
    Is that a decent score? Sure. But probably way less than you would expect. Long story short: IQ is important, but not THAT important.

  21. its a good predictor but far away from exactness. also the stuff about people below a certain IQ arent useable is nonsense. especially the reasoning with army.

  22. Lower IQ people can benefit from higher IQ people while connecting with them. But the GAP should not be too large otherwise not compatible.

  23. There have been several studies show that an IQ above 127 has no real benefit. However people with really high IQ have trouble socially. So I would agree that what is is saying is rather trivial.

  24. Actually lower middle class lawyers will not diminish but will make big money because those driverless cars will kill people.

  25. theres also an sidenote here, the reason why jordan peterson placed his top limit on around 130 is that beyound that iq threshold, the differences in iq doesn't really matter anymore. A person with 140 iq is just as equally probable to receive a noble prize as a 160 iq. Similar to basketball, where there is a sufficient amount of one`s height is around two meters, below that height really matters, and on the flipped side, above that your chances of MVP is based much more emphasis on the hours trained and support received.
    Malcom Gladwell book "Outliers" illustrates this very clearly.

  26. I definitely have mixed feelings with Mr. Peterson. In this exposition, he outlays a problem which has been currently revealed by many thinkers and historians (e.g. Harari) and provides interesting science on the facts, highlighting a debate which, in a near-future, we must face. However, he sometimes takes the stand with a pseudo-political wannabe spirit which I find totally presumptuous (and justified by the audience under such ridicule political correctness). Huh, this guy is interesting.

  27. You know what means tell you about people? Nothing. Means are useful if we want to understand if an intervention has an effect … This really shows how Jordan sometimes gets lost. Although I he definately has a lot of good things to say. I worry about any scientist who shows this degree of confidence in statements without reference or qualification.

  28. I've had relatives with incredibly high SAT and I.Q scores.I have nothing against them.So I say this objectively-some of them were downright stupid!And still are downright stupid.I avoid them precisely because they are stupid.So no…..none of this crap flies with me.

  29. i tested at 136. I've used my brain making music, but in the workplace, i use my brain to be a smart-ass, not to get better jobs.

  30. Every time I've taken an IQ test since the age of 10 the score just keeps going steadily downwards. Please leave a job for me in the grim robot future.

  31. IQ scores are not set in stone. Meditation and other mindful activities have shown to change the neuro-plasticity of the brain.

  32. Why is it that smart people are at the top of the dominance hierarchies? … Is the assumption behind the question true? Why was it that the brutal dictators of 20th century were at the top of the hierarchy? Were they that smart?

  33. Fortunately the car industry has now revealed that driverless cars just won't happen any time soon (I heard "at least not in the coming decade") so it's been hyped up extensively. Just think about it: What would the insurance cost anyone depending on a driverless car to pass kids, blind people, expensive materia in the streets with a noticeable speed? Personally I believe the e-scooters are a nice little sneak peek into what chaos would emerge. It JUST won't HAPPEN. I actually often stop newer car models that O know has the automatic stop systems and I do it by biking very close in front of them. The result for the people in the cars is "Chunnng!" -complete train standstill, and I get to be amused. Stopping an experiment driverless with my arm was also very fun. I can recommend it :). Just wave an arm into traffic for a laugh.. Do I have to tell you I have worked alot as a driver?

  34. 83? being unemployed with my qualifications, makes me feel like having a IQ of 18, and can't imagine drugs as an escape. So for those feeling more bad than me, keep yourself strong guys, there is no worth on drugs.

  35. Applying your intelligence to real life experiences and problem solving is imperative. Having those shared or familiar opportunities to better relate to others and your own personal origin stories of discovery to conceive of breakthroughs, restructuring existing beliefs, as well as appreciation for those that came before you to better connect to those that come after you is the source/ proof of human advancement.

  36. Culture and ability to handle stress are the great equalizers. Many smart people adopt dumb behavior to the point of failure or cannot function under stress.

  37. An iq test is BS. I'm a general 115 but if I swat the techniques being tested I've gotten as high as 140. Being able to utilise critical thinking, no matter your IQ, while not an intelligence measuring tool, certainly more beneficial to society broadly then someone who can remember some obscure methods and patterns

  38. I've always known the conservative viewpoint of just try harder or work harder was mostly a load of shit, to a very minor extent it's true but it's not going to dramatically change your cognitive abilities. Used to believe the liberal viewpoint that everyone was the same just different i.e. comparing a farmer, mechanic, and computer technician they're all the basically the same level of knowledge but different fields. I was about 11 when that view changed on a rainy weekend at a cub scout camp when I spent 4 hours teaching ~10 8-9 yr olds how to play chess and blackjack most of them learned how to play both of those games at a basic level but the difference in time between some of those kids utterly astounded me at how slow some people can be at picking up something new. Keep in mind I had the most ideal conditions for teaching these kids, they approached me on there own and asked how to play when I was already playing against another kid teaching him how to play i.e. I had their natural curiosity and desire to learn with no distractions since it was at a scout camp during a rainstorm.

  39. What is intelligence? It has nothing got to do with what this mushroom is talking about! (Whereupon the door closes violently!). There many robots working for MacDonalds, are you blind?. This guy is the pits!

  40. When he said people with IQ's of 85 or less I thought the students would freak out lol.. As you know its common knowledge that most black people in the US have IQ's of 85 ( on average ), and its much worse in Africa ( IQ's of 75 ).

  41. 10:00 they're going to be stay-at-home dads caring for their kidd while thr wife's out at the laboratory making money doing science

  42. @3:07: "Who are the smartest people at university?" I guessed physics, so yay for me. @3:16 "I could tell you who's on the other end but I won't." to quote Andrew Delbanco from the New York Review of Books ""…if you want to locate the laughingstock on your local campus these days, your best bet is to stop by the English department." (Nov 4, 1999)

  43. As a precursor to this whole argument, there is the argument that IQ can be an inaccurate standard to assign job skills in a matrix to. Additionally, many of the jobs mentioned in Dr. Peterson's slide show are assigned very inaccurately. For instance, in the maintenance sector we are currently in a society where the maintenance technician is becoming extinct due to the lack of interest from younger people in it as a job skill.
    Maintenance work is marked as a fairly low IQ skill but it is a very complicated field that requires base knowledge in physics, college level mathematics, and troubleshooting skills across mechanical, electrical, pneumatic and hydraulic fields.

  44. Instead of pain medication. They could give them free gym membership and train them up for marathons or a Ironman. Coaching students could learn from training up these people. It is better to do something than nothing at all even if it does not generate much money. The serotonin produced from exercise will treat the depression and give a sense of achievement. You could also train sports therapist by helping these people.

  45. The SAT is not an IQ test. It has obscure vocabulary on it FFS. It has math that you have to either learn in school or derive on the fly while taking the test. Some of it is like an IQ test, much of it isn't. I was really trying to give Peterson a listen but he just hits you with so much wrong and so fast as to make it impossible for an educated person to tolerate.

  46. now what if you have an IQ of 118 but also suffer from Attention Deficit Disorder, depression and generalized anxiety disorder?

  47. Personally I think that IQ is more fluid that what Dr. Peterson is implying. People can learn, and adapt their minds for different types of cognitive abilities. For example, exercise and a healthy diet can greatly influence the cognitive ability of people. I'm not saying everyone can be a lawyer or a doctor, but I don't think I've ever met a person so dumb that they couldn't be a cashier or clerk (not trying to insult cashiers) that he implies are 10-15% of the population.

  48. my sister has a college degree from a small southern Christian college.. she watches Hallmark movies all the way through, as though they are interesting.. she suggested getting a burger after i had been in the hospital with a rapid heart rate for 4, she doesnt understand sarcasm, she was serious. She's not self aware. sits on her ass 17 hours a day with a lap top.

  49. I like how I have classes that give me an unhealthy superiority complex and then I have videos like this that give me an unhealthy *sub*periority complex.

  50. my IQ is 139, and amazingly is the same over a range of tests. i come on utube a lot because i pay others to do my other stuff. i have a pa. i travel at will. im king of my profession, and any competitors say otherwise i will twat thee.

  51. Some inconvenient truths. However, "programmer" was clearly in the wrong category, alongside sales. (JP chose not to read it out.)

  52. Anyone that has ever had a job knows this is BS lol. I predict the goal post shifting on this as the demographic of people that are starting businesses looks a lot different now than it did 50 years ago. In 50 years to come the argument will be 'People with high IQs have a hard time finding employment because ____'. The history of goal post shifting is the history of America.

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